HE Super Fox

[engleja]

Hi all! I have edited out the serial numbers. I think it was made in 1927. Were HE guns only stamped with a H? Anyone know what the diamond and arrow stamps are on the left and right side of the H on the barrels? Why is there no Fox Proof Stamp? I think the shotgun is in really nice shape. The case hardening colors are awesome but did not pick up to well in the photos. The barrels are 32" and I think both choked barrels are choked full. After shooting some clays with it, it was very obvious that it patterns very tightly the way it didn't just break the clays it completely dusted them. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Don Ay]

great find! very interesting Super, could have been built for someone special, The what look to be "1" weight barrels are rare on HE guns. any history on the gun?

[engleja]

great find! very interesting Super, could have been built for someone special, The what look to be "1" weight barrels are rare on HE guns. any history on the gun?

Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize the "1" referred to a weight. I thought it was referencing how the barrels are were choked. What does "1" weight mean? This gun was made for my wifes Great Grandfather who was a prominent D.C. doctor with a country estate west of D.C. in Middleburg, VA. His collection of Foxs are still in the family and I hope to get some of the other ones. This one compared to the others is the bottom of the barrel.

[loggy]

What was your grandfathers last name? I have one built for a Dr. shaw, no location listed. Thanks John

[engleja]

What was your grandfathers last name? I have one built for a Dr. shaw, no location listed. Thanks John

Dr. Reuter or Frederick "Fritz" August Reuter also could have been for his son also Dr. Reuter or Frederick "Tony" Turner Reuter. Thanks for taking the time!

[fox-admin]

Very nice Super Fox. We have noted a few Fox guns lacking the proof stamp. Does you gun have the "not guaranteed" stamp on the barrel flats?
I maintain a list of known examples if you could PM or e-mail me the full serial number I would appreciate it. clarter@rochester.rr.com
I wrote an article for the Double Gun Journal Winter 2011 which will give you much information about the 12ga Super Fox guns.

[loggy]

Thanks for your reply. You have
A very nice gun.

[eightbore]

I sent you a PM with an anecdote about the Reuters. If your profile is not set up for PMs by email, email me at wilmrph@verizon.net and I will send it to you direct. Bill Murphy in MD.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Im thinking that is not a "1" as in barrel weight. It looks like the 3 character barrel tube manufacturer/supplier stamp whose name escapes me right now.
Engleja, Fox barrel weights went from "0" the heaviest to "4" the lightest weight. Fox barrels werent marked for choke.

tjw

[fullchoke16]

The crown with LLH underneath is probably what you're thinking of. Under that, it sure looks like a 1 to me.

[Researcher]

Not usually a crown with the LLH. LLH was the mark of Lochet Habran of Jurille, Belgium. I've seen it frequently on Ithacas, but I've also seen it on Fox barrels marked Chromox.

There are two different tube suppliers that had the crown over a D mark, Didiere barrel works of St Etienne, France, and Delacour of Belgium. One has rounded lobes to the crown and the other pointed. Hopefully Dr. Drew will be along to tell us which is which.

This HE-Grade being shown is marked exactly like my 1923 vintage big 32-inch XE-Grade 1-weight boomer is marked, crown over D over 1. My 1937 vintage SPE-Grade Skeet & Upland Game Gun has the crown over D over 3.

Another tube makers mark that is seen on all makes is S.B.&Co., Sanderson Brothers & Company. The information I have says that this company started in Sheffield, England, and set up a steel smelting plant in Syracuse, New York, sometime around the turn of the century, and that Lefever used a lot of their steel. Eventually became part of Crucible Steel.

Seems odd that these barrels of the gun in question don't have the "Barrels Not Guaranteed - See Tag" or the Fox Proof mark?!? Here are some more normal HE-Grade barrel flats --

[fox-admin]

Very interesting----I do believe the gun is fitted with #1 weight barrels, I would like to know the measurement across the bolsters---that would tell us if it is made on a SF frame. Also it would be interesting to know the bore measurements. It may be the only way to keep the weight below the customer specs was to make the gun on a standard frame, weird that the not guaranteed stamp, 3" stamp and fox proof are all missing. Always a curve ball when it comes to these Fox guns---you learn something new every day.

[MARSHFELLOW]

good info boys........I was hoping Researcher would be along with that barrel marking info. I guess I never remember seeing a "weight stamp" that close to the flats.
I agree with Craig, would be interesting to know those measurements.
tjw

[engleja]

Very interesting----I do believe the gun is fitted with #1 weight barrels, I would like to know the measurement across the bolsters---that would tell us if it is made on a SF frame. Also it would be interesting to know the bore measurements. It may be the only way to keep the weight below the customer specs was to make the gun on a standard frame, weird that the not guaranteed stamp, 3" stamp and fox proof are all missing. Always a curve ball when it comes to these Fox guns---you learn something new every day.

I had a sit down with my Grandfather today, who is 93, to get some more info on the shotgun. He told the most amazing stories of hunting with his father, Nash Buckingham, and Henry Bartholomew at Henry's place on the Potomac. My Grandfather said that whenever his father wanted a new shotgun he would ask Henry to get it because he "had the in" with A.H. Fox. Which explains why this shotgun was originally consigned to Henry. If y'all would like other measurements please let me know, but you may need to explain precisely what you need. I am getting ready to post a few more shotguns in my collection so please be sure to check them out and add any comments.

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Silvers]

.... regarding the lack of the "Not Guaranteed" stamping on this fine Super with its s/n that looks like 320xx, I'll cite another 32-inch HE with s/n 315xx. It also doesn't have the "NG" stamp although the Fox Proof/oval and 3-IN chamber stampings are there. 315xx would date to about 1926 using the chart on d-gunshop but its JTC letter shows shipment in October 1929. Yep, as we know Fox didn't ship guns in exact s/n sequence; consecutive gun numbers can be years apart.

We've all seen legitimate Foxes that slipped through without the Fox Proof/oval, or sidestepped that detail when "someone" was asked to work on them. And the 3-IN stamp although usually there, isn't always present even though chambers may indeed be 3-IN. On the latter point, a set of special gauges are needed to confirm the longer chambers, made to match the taper and cone of the special Fox chamber = not the same as modern 12/3 inch SAAMI specs. Frank