Good news ........ and bad news

[Stan Hillis]

I may have mentioned on here a few months back that a "new to me" 20 ga. Sterly Ejector tested badly on my grease plate, for regulation. With 7/8 oz. loads, at about 1250 fps., it crossfires badly with the left barrel, somewhat less with the right, it seemed. It was/is going to be a dedicated quail and woodcock gun, nothing else save for maybe a subgauge S X S event. It is choked M and F, and I wanted them opened a bit. I had no plans to use 1 oz. loads in it, so didn't think to try them.

I sent it to Dean Harris, at Skeet's Gunshop in Tahlequah, OK. I spoke with Dean yesterday about it. He had tested it on his grease plate extensively with different loads and found that it is regulated perfectly fine with 1 oz. loads in the 1175 range. Good news is that no altering was needed to the bore/choke transition area to correct it, but bad news that I'll have to use heavier loads than I had planned. Chokes are being opened to .006" right and .016" left. He said I'd have her back next week.

This is not the first doublegun I have found recently that needed loads on the "heavy side" to regulate. I have a .410 that requires 3/4 oz. at 1155 fps to do so. I am beginning to suspect that many vintage doubles that are in use by gunners with light loads are not sending patterns down range to POA, and are cross firing. So many don't pattern their guns at all, and just read what is touted by others as being right for them. Very light loads are being used in many vintage doubles, and I do not believe these old guns were "set up" for them. Old timers, IMO, would have scoffed at 3/4 oz. loads in a 12, or 5/8 oz. in a 16. I don't scoff at them, I just have no need for them. Just a word of caution if you like using these very light load/bore combinations ......pattern them carefully for regulation. Light recoil is fun, but missing isn't. A grease plate doesn't lie. As a caveat, I do understand that each gunner's mount and grip on the gun also affect regulation. Lightweight guns seem more prone to this than heavier ones, IMO.

All just my opinion, and I certainly don't mean to step on any toes. Your opinions welcomed.

115 days 'til dove season ........ SRH

[vaturkey]

Guess one never knows until one actually puts pellets to paper as they say. Falling into a similarly related ammo category, last year I took a new to me SKB model 100 20 gauge that I had purchased for a late season grouse gun in cold cold temps as I wanted a single trigger gun. I was contemplating having the chokes opened up from their stated full/mod to something more useful. Out of curiosity I took a Remington game loads in size 7.5 with me and RST spreader loads (both 7/8 oz loads) also in size 7.5. Figured if the RST spreader load worked well I'd perhaps not open up the chokes at all and just use those as required. Also, the full/mod factory option of the SKB might work out well for late season stocked pheasant hunting in Pa so it make some sense to leave the guns chokes intact.

Anyway, bottom line is at 25 yards the RST spreader loads were significantly tighter on the patterning board, then the Remington's which frankly surprised the heck out of me and also the fellow who was with me. Accordingly, I did have Mike Orlen open up the chokes on the SKB a month or so later. PS. The SKB is the only non Fox SXS I own. It certainly does have is place as a pretty handy gun that can do a lot of things quite well.

[snakeeater]

I may have mentioned on here a few months back that a "new to me" 20 ga. Sterly Ejector tested badly on my grease plate, for regulation. With 7/8 oz. loads, at about 1250 fps., it crossfires badly with the left barrel, somewhat less with the right, it seemed. It was/is going to be a dedicated quail and woodcock gun, nothing else save for maybe a subgauge S X S event. It is choked M and F, and I wanted them opened a bit. I had no plans to use 1 oz. loads in it, so didn't think to try them.

I sent it to Dean Harris, at Skeet's Gunshop in Tahlequah, OK. I spoke with Dean yesterday about it. He had tested it on his grease plate extensively with different loads and found that it is regulated perfectly fine with 1 oz. loads in the 1175 range. Good news is that no altering was needed to the bore/choke transition area to correct it, but bad news that I'll have to use heavier loads than I had planned. Chokes are being opened to .006" right and .016" left. He said I'd have her back next week.

This is not the first doublegun I have found recently that needed loads on the "heavy side" to regulate. I have a .410 that requires 3/4 oz. at 1155 fps to do so. I am beginning to suspect that many vintage doubles that are in use by gunners with light loads are not sending patterns down range to POA, and are cross firing. So many don't pattern their guns at all, and just read what is touted by others as being right for them. Very light loads are being used in many vintage doubles, and I do not believe these old guns were "set up" for them. Old timers, IMO, would have scoffed at 3/4 oz. loads in a 12, or 5/8 oz. in a 16. I don't scoff at them, I just have no need for them. Just a word of caution if you like using these very light load/bore combinations ......pattern them carefully for regulation. Light recoil is fun, but missing isn't. A grease plate doesn't lie. As a caveat, I do understand that each gunner's mount and grip on the gun also affect regulation. Lightweight guns seem more prone to this than heavier ones, IMO.

All just my opinion, and I certainly don't mean to step on any toes. Your opinions welcomed.

115 days 'til dove season ........ SRH

Read Rollin Oswalds book Stock Fitters Bible, Chapter 22. Cheers Fritz.

[Jim Cloninger]

Very interesting, Stan. I use my SxS's for hunting and do not use very light loads. I have never had a SxS crossfire with hunting loads. Jim

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, Fritz. I'll look for a copy. You've got me curious, now.

P.S. Found a copy on Amazon.

SRH

[Stan Hillis]

Received Oswald's book by post and have just begun reading it. He says in the "Forward" not to skip around and cherry pick it, so I'll read Ch. 22 when I get there.

Thanks again for the recommendation, Fritz.

Best, SRH

[eightbore]

I have a 12 gauge problem gun that seems to throw the left barrel way to the left with my favorite 7/8 ounce loads. I will try it with some heavier loads that it was probably originally patterned with. Wish me luck.

[Mills]

Very interesting. I'll admit to not patterning guns too often. They either shoot well for me or they don't.

[Researcher]

With the North American Nimrod's general "more is better" attitude these old guns probably saw plenty of Western Super-X, Peters High Velocity, Remington Nitro Express, etc. loads from the 1920s to the late 1980s. I wonder if our manufacturers began regulating their guns for those loads?

Early on the A.H. Fox Gun Co. hang-tags showed the load the gun was targeted with --

By sometime in the 1920s that disappeared --

While most of our ammunition manufacturers put up their one ounce 20-gauge high velocity loads in a 2 3/4 inch or longer case, Winchester offered their REPEATER Speed Loads, later Super-Speed, in both 2 1/2 inch and 2 3/4 inch cases.

Super-Speed 2 1-2 inch 20-gauge.jpg (81.56 KiB) Viewed 8028 times

Super-Speed 2 3-4 inch 20-gauge.jpg (82.44 KiB) Viewed 8028 times

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, Dave. I've received the 20, back from Dean, but haven't had time to try it with the 1 oz. loads he recommended, on the grease plate. The chokes he opened look beautiful, as far as finish, etc., goes. I'll report back when I get the chance to shoot her.

Bill, let us know how yours does with the heavier, slower loads, please.

SRH

[DarylC]

Interesting problem Stan that I hope I never have. That being said I normally take out a new to me Fox and put it on paper just to verify POI. I did'nt do that with my recent purchase of a 32" 20 SW choked .032 in each tube. I just took it out and shot it. Did well with it. I can pretty much tell if it's shooting where I look but yesterday I had the chance to put it on paper as your problem had me curious. I shot all patterns at 30yds. with three different payload weights. All were in the 1200fps. neighborhood. All patterned 70/30.

First load is my favorite 3/4oz, second was 7/8oz. and the third was a 1oz. all 7 1/2's and all factory. They shot were I looked.

I then ran the same shot charges which were my handloads through the SW and the results where the same.

I'm curious to see your results.

Daryl

[Jim Cloninger]

Sounds like a good test, Daryl. Good to see you posting regularly again.
Jim

[DarylC]

Thanks Jim. Did'nt have my laptop for 3+ weeks. Kinda, sorta did'nt miss the web except for here and the PGCA site.

[Stan Hillis]

Interesting post, Daryl. We're covered up with farm work right now, but as soon as I can free up a little time I'll try her with the 1 oz. "slow loads" and report back. Thanks for your comments.

SRH

[snakeeater]

Received Oswald's book by post and have just begun reading it. He says in the "Forward" not to skip around and cherry pick it, so I'll read Ch. 22 when I get there.

Thanks again for the recommendation, Fritz.

Best, SRH

Morning Stan, I hope you find the book to your liking , I was amazed at what I did not know. Cheers Fritz.