Requesting assistance to post photos of early Fox B Grade

[PhillyFoxB]

I have a nice old Fox with a serial number below 1500 that has some unusual features. I'd like to share some photos however I'm having difficulty attaching the photos. Can anyone offer some assistance on the procedure??? Thanks.[/code]

[Researcher]

You could email them to me and I could post them for you faster then I could explain it -- david.noreen@comcast.net

[Researcher]

This is a 12 gauge with 30 inch barrels (actually 29 7/8 inch) choked full and full. The bores are near 100% and it retains 80-85% blue. Note the sides of the barrels are absent the usual engraving found on B grades. Also, I have never seen another Fox with a safety such as this one. I have corresponded with John Callahan and Michael McIntosh regarding this Fox and was told this one was made in 1906. It is heavier than most at 8 ¼ lbs with nice forward balance. I’ve been using it for vintager sporting clays events and occasional skeet with ¾ oz spreader loads with good results. After over 100 years, the trigger pulls are still very crisp both breaking at 3 ¼ lbs.

Thanks for your assistance with the posting.

Mike

[Researcher]

[Researcher]

That is what the safety slides look like pictured in the 1906 catalogues. I've yet to see any Fox paper that shows the safety on this 1912 BE-Grade -- http://www.foxcollectors.com/style%20directory.htm

There is no flourish of engraving on the barrel breech ends nor is there the little bird down by the sear pin shown on the B-Grade in the 1906 or 1907 catalogues. By the 1911 catalogues both the little bird by the sear pin and the little flourish of engraving at the breech ends of the barrels are shown in the cut of the B-Grade. I don't have a 1908, 09 or 10 catalogue, so don't know when they first appear. A very few B-grades from just before they changed over to the Gough-style engraving have an oval around the little bird.

Those beautifully profiled wider "spoon" triggers were the norm on the very early guns -- http://www.foxcollectors.com/1906%20c%20grade.htm

[PhillyFoxB]

One last question - would anyone know if the chamber length on these early guns were 2 3/4 or were they chambered for the shorter 2 5/8 or 2 1/2 inch shell length? I have read Tom Roster's studies as well as some others on chamber pressure relating to shooting the 2 3/4 inch shell in the shorter chambers. Although Mr Roster and the others make a good argument that the increase in pressure is negligable if one is using light loads and plastic hulls, I still have reservations about doing so on a hundred year old gun. I only shoot 3/4 oz and 7/8 oz loads to 1200 fps through this Fox. Thanks.

[Researcher]

FOX CHAMBERS –

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book "The Parker Story" the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in "The American Rifleman" (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A recent issue of The Double Gun Journal carried an article on tests showing no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.