Mystery Sterlingworth

[jsdboy]

Hi Fox Collectors!
I joined this forum in the hopes of finding out some information about a shotgun that i recently acquired - a Fox Sterlingworth.
I am absolutely intrigued with this shotgun, so I thought i would show and tell, with the hopes of getting some feedback as to what it is that I have.
I have had no success in being able to determine the date of birth of this gun, or the two parts (as you shall see) and what the possibilities of the story of this piece might be.
The story:I have been aware of these guns for a while now, however I have never really handled one. i finally met this one and was immediately smitten. the reason being is that I finally found a side by side shotgun that fit me! I seem to have a somewhat unusual body configuration in that it is very difficult for me to locate shotguns with enough drop at comb and length of pull for me. this one did and without much thought I bought it. i was kind of vaguely aware of the relative worth of these guns. However, it turns out that I also was/am quite ignorant about asking the right questions from a collectors standpoint; such as "do the serial numbers of the barrels match those of the receiver? when a friend asked me this I was floored - who would think that there would be a difference? this was not a military piece after all............ as it turns out the numbers do not match as can be seen by the photo's. Also, it seems that the fore arm is not at all stock - it is missing the lovely nut in the middle and there is no checkering, and it is a beavertail type shape - rather than the "splinter". I do believe that all of these things make the gun worth less than half of what have paid for it - although what i paid is relative - in that there was a partial trade of another shotgun involved..............
so gentlemen, i have resigned myself to the idea that i perhaps made a bad purchase from a value point of view. from a users point of view I find this to be a delight to use. it is heavy (8.0 lb on the nose) and as stated, fits well. I have never once found a side by side that i have been able to hit anything with, let alone shoot comfortably. This one is comfortable enough that I can easily put 150 rounds through it and still enjoy the rest of the day.... I was very surprised to find that i could score just as poorly with this gun as with my usual semi auto at the last 5 stand practice i attended. And that the double triggers are really very easy to use in rapid succession!
now to start posting a bunch of pictures of this new addition. I would very much like an A grade Fox, and am hoping that one of those would be of a similar dimension.
Without further ado.............


the tang seems to rest to the right of center which i am told is good


and when the gun is apart


the serial number on the receiver


versus the serial number of the barrels


And the barrels do not come perfectly to face - this does not seem to effect anything, i hope


there is a serial number on the trigger guard tang


there is no serial number on the forearm hardware


someone always has to mess with the action screws don't they?


the barrel stamping is clean


2 more




thanks for looking!
Any and all comments/questions would be appreciated
jsd

[fullchoke16]

Your action is from about 1923, the barrels are from a gun about 10 years earlier. From the photos, the barrels fit up much better than I usually see on a mix and match gun. The fore end is not factory but has a nice shape to it and with some simple checkering added could look quite nice. I'm curious as to your mention of a NUT on the fore end. Sterlingworth ejector guns do have a small (dime size) anchor through the wood for firmer footing of the ejectors, but the pictured gun doesn't have ejectors. Your gun looks to be a serviceable field gun and if it fits and you like it, I wouldn't be too concerned about originality on this one. Sterlingworths were the starting point in the Fox line and as such were well used and are seldom found in collector condition. You refer to needing non typical stock dimensions, what are they?

[jsdboy]

Thank you Fullchoke!
- Thank you for the clarification on the "anchor" use in the forearms of the Sterlingworth equipped with ejector. I had assumed that thee were no Sterlingworths made with an ejector as that represented an expense. thus, with that faulty assumption in mind, i never thought that the forearms that i had seen on "google images" might be on a model with ejectors. here is a good photo of what got me into trouble:



- In terms of my dimensions, I am unable to provide any real details as i have never ventured into the realm of being measured up for a shotgun. I am much more bush league than that i am afraid. thus, my measurement system is very subjective and imprecise. I do know that any shotgun with less than 2 3/4" drop at comb will not work for me. Any gun with less than 14 1/2" L.O.P. will not work. guns that i have been able to shoot with are ones such as the Browning Auto 5, older Remington Wingmasters, and most things Beretta. Anything that is Citori i just can not use. I have had a lot of fun and opportunity to play with a friends fabulous old English side by side's - tiny wee things that weigh maybe 5 lbs and kick like a mule. they are simply gorgeous but not a lot of fun to play with for me.
the shotgun that i currently have as my "go to" shot everything gun is a Browning Silver Hunter with a 28" barrel. As well as a nice Ithaca SKB O/U, amongst others.........
- the comments on the matching of the older barrel to the newer receiver are much appreciated. the entire mechanism locks up very tightly - even with the forearm removed.
- Also, the comment about checkering the forearm is nice, it would allow me to basically make this gun "my own".
- one of the other thins that attracted me to this shotgun is that in the few guns that i have used in the past with double triggers, each trigger had its own weight of pull which i found rather annoying. The triggers on this gun have an equal weight of pull, and they are both very crisp and light. in fact, they would make suitable triggers for a hunting rifle.......

And now the 64 thousand dollar question. what do you think a gun like this would be reasonable worth? i ask to assuage any guilt i might have over being silly and making an impulse purchase, or perhaps your answer will cause more angst. I "paid" (in quotation as there was the trade of another gun involved) perhaps $850 for this gun.
I am not sure if geography has any impact on this. I live in Victoria, BC up here in the frozen north of Canada.
Thanks again and have a lovely day!
jsd

[eightbore]

With mismatched barrels and a non original forend, you are probably into the gun for "enough" money. However, you have traded into something you like and a wonderful gun. Enjoy.

[jsdboy]

With mismatched barrels and a non original forend, you are probably into the gun for "enough" money. However, you have traded into something you like and a wonderful gun. Enjoy.

very delicately and eloquently put Mr. 8bore
the gun will be retained
Do you think she can withstand a couple of thousand rounds per year through her for the next few years??

good shooting to you gentlemen!
jsd

[fullchoke16]

If it's on face, it will not have a problem digesting light 1 oz. target loads. I'm not from your neck of the woods, so I can't comment as to availability of Fox guns there. But, yes, that does affect the going price of them. Just as an example, in this part of PA, Model 88 Winchesters go for about double what they do other places. There are plenty around but guys just don't want to part with them. $850 for a gun you can kill birds with is OK in my book. A bit of stock finish and a simple point pattern checkering on the fore end and you'll have a nice looking gun there. On the plus side, you won't singe your fingers on the trap range with that beaver tail. Happy shooting. Fred

[eightbore]

If everything is tight at the breech, a couple of thousand rounds a year should be no problem.

[jsdboy]

Great! that is good to know as the gun seems to be getting pulled off the rack at the range more and more. I had thought it might be more of a "novelty" item, except it's status seems to be changing into more of a "constant use" item.
I am also hoping that the gun can take the odd box of 3 dr. eq. target loads through it. everything appears to be really solid so maybe i should just stop the fretting and go play?
thank you all for the help gents, it is nice to know what it is that has landed into my my paws, and also that i would like to move towards a couple of A grades, as mentioned.
I have found two in two other parts of the country,and have received photo's from the dealers; perhaps I will start another thread and ask why they are so different from each other.

good shooting to you all!

jsd

[jsdboy]

Just as an example, in this part of PA, Model 88 Winchesters go for about double what they do other places. There are plenty around but guys just don't want to part with them. $850 for a gun you can kill birds with is OK in my book. A bit of stock finish and a simple point pattern checkering on the fore end and you'll have a nice looking gun there. On the plus side, you won't singe your fingers on the trap range with that beaver tail. Happy shooting. Fred

I am back - i missed this comment Mr. full choke. I have located a stock maker in the area of some national repute, and will be taking the gun over to have him give me a quote on checkering. I am quite excited.
Would the pattern on the beavertail forearms i have shown above be appropriate even though that forearm is from a savage model B Fox from the '40's?? I kind of like it and it is simple.
I think your comment on the model 88 uncanny co-incidental. I just missed a trade on one in 308 (yesterday), and the guy wanted a Krag as a trade! krags are virtually worthless up here. I have one in a carbine model in the crazy old Ernest Hemingway 6.5x54 MS caliber, and the guy would have taken it, however as said, missed by the skin of my teeth because one has to be quick like a bunny to land a good model 88!
in my continued snooping around the net and local shops, getting a nice sterlingworth in 12 ga, is difficult too. they appear to be mostly in 16 ga. in this area, and 16 ga. is a "dead ga." here. the only way to shoot is to buy components and reload. thus the 12 is much more desirable.
Incidentally, the barrels on this old girls i have are of a beautiful mirror polish on the inside, with about 85% of the original rust bluing left on the out. I have not patterned on a board yet, but in terms of busting clays, it is tight with no big holes. very happy.
ok, off to a 22 pistol shoot.
I will make another thread showing the other two foxes i have found, more just for your enjoyment than anything. they are interesting and lovely things they are.......

Have a great day!
jsd

[Marcus R]

"in my continued snooping around the net and local shops, getting a nice sterlingworth in 12 ga, is difficult too. they appear to be mostly in 16 ga. in this area, and 16 ga. is a "dead ga." here. the only way to shoot is to buy components and reload. thus the 12 is much more desirable"


jsd,

Where are you located? With 16 ga Foxes so plentiful, it sounds like a wonderful place!

Cheers
Marcus

[MilRob]

Gun shops full of 16 ga Foxes. Sounds like an awesome place to be.

[jsdboy]

Gun shops full of 16 ga Foxes. Sounds like an awesome place to be.

Goodness!
Hold your horses gentlemen! And let me phrase that much more accurately: if and when a fox floats thorough one of our shops in the area it is invariably a 16 ga. Sterlingworth.
And that is still distressingly uncommon
And in my area, which is Victoria, BC Canada, there are only 3 gun shops left. Imagine that ! our greater Victoria area has almost 800,00 people and only 3 shops.
most of the originals crumbled when the long gun registry was passed back in 1995(?) Now the registry has been abolished but the damage has been done.
in the greater Vancouver area, with about 4X the population, there are many more Fox's that show up, although one has to be a gun show regular to catch them.
Also, there are people that are hoarders that are completely unknown. Unfortunately this is not referring to the fox shotguns, but as an example of under cover hoarders - a very rare and sought after rifle in this area is the model 1903 Mannlicher Schoenaure chambered in 6.5x54 MS. they float through the Canadian gun forums every now and again, and even at the large Vancouver shows, there are rarely more than half a dozen for sale at a big show. this winter i was at a mans house in the area responding to an ad he had posted for some Ithaca flues and L.C. Smith field grades he had. as the conversation wandered the topic of the M1903 came up. he has 36 of them!!!!. and now that i have been sensitized to foxes i have asked him if he has any -yes, two Sterlingworths in, you guessed it, 16 ga.
they are around, one just has to be vigilant.
have a great day!
jsd