Chamber lengths

[dmill]

I have wondered for a long time what determined the chamber length on Fox's. I have had guns from the same era with chamber lengths varying from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" with no apparent reason. Can someone explain this?
Dave Miller

[Researcher]

Here is my canned Fox Chambers reply which has been posted many times before. It is well neigh impossible to say what has been done to various guns chambers over the last hundred years or so.

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A Sherman Bell series in The Double Gun Journal showed no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

[dmill]

Thanks for posting the reply once again!! I asume that a few of the longer chamber lengths may have been special ordered guns but that most of those that we see today have been opened to longer lengths. If they were special ordered, would there be card references to that length?
Dave Miller

[Researcher]

Yes. There are quite a few cards that mention either a requested chamber length or chamber for X" length shell. I have a 1920-vintage AE-Grade 20-gauge that the card says "Chamber for 2 3/4 inch shell" and the chamber is in fact 2 5/8 inches. Some Parker Bros. researchers have reported an actual difference. If the request said "chamber for 3-inch shell" the chambers of the gun would be 2 7/8 inches in keeping with Parker Bros. policy of holding chambers 1/8 inch short. However, if the order book entry was "chamber 3-inch", the chambers would be 3-inches. I don't know if this is fact or fancy, and I'm sure as every year passes and more guns have their chambers messed with this gets harder and harder to prove. I doubt my Father or Grandfather ever had a conscious thought about the chamber lengths of their Damascus and twist barrel Parker Bros. and Remington Hammerless Doubles as they hunted game with 2 3/4 inch Western Super-X, Remington Nitro Express and Federal Hi-Power shells!!