Fox Collectors

I've seen this...






I found this...







Early 20 gauge, Turnbull colors.
Has anyone ever seen this flowery "A" pattern?

Thank you.

My early A-Grade 20-gauge, 200158, which has never been refinished, is kind of in between those two in engraving. Quite possibly the engraving on that 20-gauge is the result of Turnbull's engraver picking up the engraving after the receiver was polished prior to being color case hardened. At the California Side-by-Side in 2014, I examined an early A-Grade 20-gauge upgraded to the 1913 B-grade style engraving by Turnbull before it was case colored. It was clearly marked with the intertwined DT stamp on the watertable.

Here is a couple of quick shots of A
#18

Jess,

Got anymore pictures of this early A-Grade? The one and two digit guns I have pictures of are all B- and C-Grades.
By 104 and 106 the A-Grades look like the gun at the start of this thread.

Dave I will get some for you.

birdawg wrote:Here is a couple of quick shots of A
#18

18-8491.jpg

18-8493.jpg

Thank you for showing us #18. Earliest Fox I have seen. If you would show us more, that would be appreciated.

Is the old girl still tight and shoot OK?

Thanks.

bill
It will be next week before I can but I will get some photos then. Very well used, slight crack in the head of the stock,
a little loose. 26" appears un cut.

birdawg wrote:bill
It will be next week before I can but I will get some photos then. Very well used, slight crack in the head of the stock,
a little loose. 26" appears un cut.

Thanks Jess.

Shipped October 1912
20 gauge, 30"



Researcher, Sir, any chance of posting an image of your early "A" engraving?
Please and thank you.

12ga, #202xx

I don't have any good close-ups.

Is that "Skitz" next to the gun?

Just looking at your pics I'd say the engraving was "enhanced" by Turnbull. Here's an original A Grade small bore shipped in December 1913. Click on pic to expand.

Here is another Early AE, 12 gauge. 19,689. Now in the upper midwest chasing grouse as I sold it a few years ago.

Hey guys,

The Fox A Grade that is in question here is an original engraving from Fox. If you look at all the early A engravings in this thread, most are quite anemic and barely noticeable cuts. However, the last one with all of the condition has much deeper and more ornate border cuts. I am sure anybody who has looked at American doubles for any length of time has seen engraved guns with a little more embellishment than most. Think Parkers with more curly cuts on the scroll work, or Ithacas with extra flourishes of vines. If you study the engraving closely on our website, you will see it is wholly in tune with the characteristic cuts of the early A Grade patterns, with only some extra flourish around the "sunbursts" and a deeper cuttinf of the engraving. Even under high def, zoom-in scrutiny you cannot see any evidence of recuts. No engraver can embellish existing engraving without the cuts being seen under high magnification. Quite simply, they were not all done by the same engraver, and each engraver had the choice to spend a little extra time to finish a piece if he/she chose. I think they called them "Friday Guns" didn't they?

One thing for certain, when we had Turnbull recase color the action, we did the prep and there has been no engraving touched while in our possession. It looked the same way the day I got it over a year ago. Anyone that wants to see true hi-def photos, just email me at jay@vfiguns.com and I can send a few at a time. We post photos that are less than high def as they take too long to load otherwise. This is just a super cool Fox A Grade with unique extra effort engraving. Heck, how many early A Grade small bores could there be? They only made them for a few months and then the late style came to be. This gun, sn200029, is right at the transition. It would be interesting if another came up exactly like this one. That would end the question mark.

If the last photos in this thread show an early A with better, more detailed engraving than the other examples, it becomes obvious that different engravers, on different days, had slight variations in engraving. Maybe the customer had special pull with the shop manager? Who knows 105 years later, but my eyes and yours can tell it has not been engraved twice.

The gun speaks for itself and holds the story in her own language. We as observers must interpret the story the best we can. What other explanations can you guys come up with? Has anybody else seen oddities in original Fox engravings? I have noticed in the C Grades that some are very lightly cut and some, from the same era, much more pronounced. Again, different engravers or same engravers different days?

Will keep an eye on this thread to see the thoughts of other learned folks. The gun will be for sale soon.

Jay Shachter, President
Vintage Firearms Inc

www.vfiguns.com