Fox Collectors

Ok, here's something rather new. I was going thru some of my accumulation the otherday talking with a gunsmith friend of mine and I asked him if he would try to identify something for me. I pulled it off the cabinet, handed it to him and he began to look. I thought the part (assembly) was from an Ithaca or some other double as the floorplate didn't look Foxlike to me. I had previously shown a few of my Fox friends last year at the Hausmann shoot (some of them are reading this now) and nobody seemed to have a clue...some of whom are rather good at Fox mechanics. So after a minute or two my buddy said it was a Kautzky single trigger set-up. Although I have more than my share of Kautzky fitted guns I have never seen the inside of one. So then we wondered why was this assembled to some other brand of sxs floorplate???? My buddy then realized it was all Fox....we were duped by the coil springs that were "powering" the hammers....not traditional Fox set up. We were also confused by the "camel humps" on each outboard side of the floorplate. Well, the "camel humps" are there obviously because the rest of the receiver is not!!!....they had to have attachment points for the hammer & sear axles. The unusual coil springs were fitted on there because the usual arrangement for the mainsprings was not there with no frame.

Then the "camel humps" looked familiar and I fetched an old Fox catalog.....1933 I believe....the one with the Lynn Bogue Hunt cover. I had seen this before, just had never put it together 'til yesterday. The pictures will do the rest of the talking......

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So now I guess I need to wonder about the engraving.....never seen nothin' like it on a AH Fox gun!!

I wonder if this is the only one, just done for the catalog???..... maybe it was a "saleman's sample". Has anyone out there seen another?? By the way, it works flawlessly.

tjw

Well I'll be...........how cool is that.

WOW!! Very cool, Tom! Wish I had known you had that floating around. Could have used it for a recent "project" of mine.--????????????-----TOOL

That is neat, Tom. Thanks for showing it to us. First time I've ever seen the inside of a Kautsky.

The engraving looks a bit "Art Deco" to my eye. The catalog being from 1933 would put the trigger sample being produced in the midst of the Art deco craze in America, if indeed the sample was made about that same time.

All my best, Stan

Stan,
I need to check earlier catalogs.... I don't know when this "image" was first used....I just happened to grab that one. I could use help on that as there are many holes in my catalog collection.

Steve, I cant imagine what that project may have been???.......this thing would never fit into a Fox gun with the "camel humps".
tjw

Very cool Tom! Nice Catch!

Tom/Marshfellow,

Pretty neat find.

What else you going to come up with to surprise us? Keep digging for those treasures and thanks for sharing.

Yes, very cool.

Jolly

Tom: Nice find!! Congratulations on uncovering another piece of Fox gun history----it's been quite a year!

Great find!! This gizmo appears in the first Savage produced A.H. Fox catalogue in 1931 and remains through the 1942.

In Philadelphia, this is the folder that was inserted in some of the 1914 "Fox Gets the Game" catalogues --

Outside --



Inside --



and this is the pictures used in the 1915-17 "Fox Gets the Game" catalogues --



These same three cuts were used through the 1927 "Wood Grain" Catalogue. The Fox-Kautzky Single Selective Trigger isn't pictured in the 1928-29 "Wood Grain" Brochures.

Thanks Dave, was hoping you'd chime in with good info and you did. I wonder why they felt it necessary to mock up "the gizmo".

t

I should have mentioned that this gizmo came out of Mitzie Bielin's workshop. In speaking with my friend Mr. Callahan recently, he tells me that he remembers the gizmo at Mitzie's bench at Savage/Fox when they were both working there back when.

tjw

In the 1931 through 1936 catalogues the text reads "Because of new patent sear block, it Cannot Double." In the 1937 through 1942 catalogues the text reads "Because of new patent inertia block, it Cannot Double." Does this mean Savage made some changes to the Fox-Kautzky Single Selective Trigger from the way A.H. Fox Gun Co. manufactured it? Is there a "new" patent out there I haven't found?

.........I dunno???.......waaayy to technical for me.

tjw

Hey Tom, way cool, In my mind this Mock-up now becomes a salemans' tool to show how the SST works, Kind of like the same reason that the Fox Cutaway actions were done. The mock up allows you to cock both hammers, select the R/L sequence, squeeze the triggers and watch the response. You have cocked it and fired it I presume? I know I would be clicking that cool thing a time or two. I guess the mock up could also be used to set up a SST trigger from scratch for some rough in machining, but to get the SST trigger right it has to be mounted in the actual floor plate that it would be assembled in. I think with the engraving on the bottom this was to be used a marketing tool and not an assembly tool.. Just my thoughts.. Keep digging through those boxes, More treasures are a waiting!

hey there!!!!......there you are!! Yes, it works flawlessly, changing right to left etc.

tjw