Fred Coleman Fox Professional Representative

[Drew Hause]

Image c. 1900 holding a Parker
https://books.google.com/books?id=hlybT ... =PA113&lpg



https://www.shooting-school.org/fred-co ... eon-shoot/
Reports that all his guns and trophies were lost in a fire in 1956, the year before his death.

Did not participate in the First DuPont Grand Smokeless Championship Handicap Live-bird Tournament October 1895 nor the 1896 GAH

Nor 1897 Pennsylvania State Tournament
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 7/id/46383

1898 GAH using a L.C. Smith and killed only 15 birds at 26 yds.
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 5661/rec/2

1899 GAH using a Francotte killing 22 at 28 yds.
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 3583/rec/1

Did not participate in the 1900 or 1901 GAH at Live Birds

1900 Penn. State Shoot
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 3005/rec/5

Went to work for Tryon as a shell loader in 1903
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 123/rec/71

1903 Penn. Target & Live Bird Championships
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 9233/rec/1
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 7/id/39229
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 7/id/39231
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 7/id/39232

1904 Penn. Target Championship did not compete; won by Fen Cooper
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 8549/rec/1

After the Penn. Championship, Coleman won a match with Fen Cooper for the Live Bird Championship. 50 Live Birds, 21 yd. rise, one shot only, gun below elbow until bird is on wing, $500 a side (about $12,500)
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 024/rec/29

Won Keystone Shoot May 28, 1904
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 435/rec/97

June 1904 issued a Live Bird challenge
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 57/rec/105

1905 Penn. State Shoot with image. Target Championship & tied Live Bird
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 868/rec/28
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 869/rec/28

1905 Average and image
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 487/rec/44

1907 Live Bird Championship of Penn. defeating Jack Brewer
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 819/rec/65

July 1907 using a Fox
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 950/rec/32

May 30, 1910 Live Bird competition with Anna Reiker. Killed 100 straight from 33 yds.
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 590/rec/62

1911 Penn. State Shoot (targets)
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 034/rec/26
Won doubles event
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 035/rec/26

1912
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 648/rec/12
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 524/rec/70

1913
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collec ... 137/rec/74


Is his Fox documented? Grade?

[jolly bill]

Is his Fox documented? Grade?

It was reported that Fred Coleman lost all his guns and trophies in a fire in 1956. I would like to think that at least one Fox survived or was disposed of prior to the fire.

And it’s quite probable that he owned more than one Fox during his shooting career.

This is from Michael McIntosh’s book “A. H. Fox - The Finest Gun in the World”, pages 84 - 85:
“In early 1907, just as the Fox Gun Company announced a move into the factory formerly occupied by Philadelphia Arms, the gun made its first significant performances in competitive shooting. In a February 12 (1907) shoot held at the Point Breeze race track in Philadelphia, Mr. Fred Coleman turned in the only perfect twenty-five of the match, using an A grade Fox. By May, Coleman had upgraded to a C grade gun and used it to win a twenty-five-bird pigeon match held at Lebanon on the 24th. Shooting at thirty-two yards rise, he killed thirty-seven straight to take the match in a shoot-off. The news item, released by the Fox Company, reports, “Mr. Coleman has won every pigeon match he has shot with the A. H. Fox gun, one of his most recent victories being his defeat of the world-famous Captain J. L. Brewer, in which contest Mr. Coleman scored 94 to Brewer’s 93 out of 100.”

And this from Sporting Life October 31, 1908:
“At the recent Pennsylvania State shoot, Fred Coleman, of Pottsville, shooting an A. H. Fox gun, was the only one to go through the entire live bird program with a clean record of 45 straight kills. Mr. Coleman has shot at considerably over 200 birds with his new Fox gun and has killed them all, the only one lost being one which fell dead out of bounds. This is a wonderful score and bears evidence of the wonderful marksmanship of Mr. Coleman, as well as the splendid shooting qualities of the Fox gun.”

I looked in the Philadelphia City Directory and found several Frederick Coleman’s. In 1908 there is a Fred Coleman listed as a gunmaker and living at 1626 Wingohocking. Listed again in 1909 at the same address but no occupation listed. His location at 1626 Wingohocking is only a few blocks from the newly relocated Fox factory at N. 18th Street and Windrum. There was also a Fred Coleman listed as a cartridge maker in the 1905 and again in the 1913 directory.

Pictured below is a Fox looking but unmarked gun that may have been owned by Fred Coleman.

The gun appears to be an early B grade 12 gauge with a straight grip and extractors. 27 5/8" barrels (70 cm) that are Full (0.690) and Mod (0.705). Chokes start back about where they usually start: 3 - 4 inches. It had some features I’ve never seen on a Fox.

There is a bead wrapped around the balls of the receiver starting at the bottom of the barrels and up to the top of the barrels. Somewhat like the single bead on AH and BH grade Parker’s. Another feature is the unusual but very attractive checkering pattern on the side panels. Also, the fancier checkering pattern on the stock and fore end wood would not be seen on a standard B grade.

The gun is unmarked in that it has no serial number, no grade and/or patent info on the water table and barrel flats, fore end iron and no markings on the top of the barrels. The only markings on the gun are 3 initials engraved on the trigger guard and the bottom of barrels are marked "Fluid Steel - Krupp Essen" as marked on most, if not all graded Krupp barreled Fox guns.

The 3 initials engraved on the straight gripped trigger guard where a SN would be look to be "FJC" or "FIC".

I removed the two screws of the trigger guard and looked at the underside of the TG and on the inletting of the stock. No markings there either. I removed the fore end iron, nope, nothing there. I did not remove the stock or the leather covered recoil pad to look for markings.

It has an extra heavy manual, non-automatic, push/pull safety slide. Makes sense for a live bird or trap shooter who would want it to stay OFF. And the stock was never cut for the auto safe mechanism.

Could this be a Fred Coleman Fox?

Wha da ya think?

[jolly bill]

More pictures of unmarked Fox.

[Jeff S]

Bill, that sure is a beautiful gun.

[ROMAC]

Bill,

The non checked part of the checkering design on the cheek kind of reminds me of field of fire on a pigeon ring or trap house.

Anybody else get that impression?

[loggy]

Bill,
Thanks for the interesting post. Your gun was an incredible find!
John

[loggy]

I was speaking to a well known dealer that I respect about the provenance of guns. He said that particularly younger collectors were unwilling to buy a gun without a strong written history. They either didn’t have the expertise to judge a gun or didn’t know someone to help them. Fortunately that leaves some nice picks for guys like Jolly that can judge a gun based solely on its merits!
John

[Sporrns]

Bill, I hope that this does turn out to be Coleman's Fox. I came VERY close to buying it on two occasions but could find no provenance or information at all on it. It is a beautifully detailed and finished gun and has an enigmatic appeal all its own. (As a consolation prize, instead I bought the "Amish Gun", a 32-inch 20 ga. A Grade straight grip!). Best, Kevin

[Researcher]

What a wonderful find, Jolly!! With the guide pins on the extractor and the reinforced forearm loop it is not a real early gun.

[Silvers]

Bill, what a great Fox! Just my opinion of course but with the frame forging and barrels not serialed and sans the Fox Proof stamp I'd opine that the parts were somehow secreted from the factory and turned over to a real craftsman/men to finish. And with Coleman's tie to the AHFGC I really doubt he would have done or subscribed to that. I can't imagine him at a trap or live bird shoot with that Fox and with factory principals there to wonder how it came about.

Maybe it's a pic illusion but it’s odd that the sear pin looks to be larger diameter than the hammer pin and the exposed ends aren’t rounded off as per Fox factory practice (pic #2). frank

[Jim Cloninger]

I think you are right, Roger.

[Woody]

Bill that’s a neat story/history of Fred Coleman. Hopefully it is Coleman’s gun.

Not only is it a pretty gun but it really shoots nicely!!! I shot sporting clays with Bill today and he was shooting this gun. He let me shoot it and it handles and points very nice. I’ve shot is few times before but he must see me staring at it and asked if I wanted To shoot it. Lol It breaks clays good with Bill’s 1/2 and 3/4 oz shells. What load were you shooting today Bill?

[jolly bill]

Bill that’s aneat story/history of Fred Coleman. Hopefully it is Coleman’s gun.

Not only is it a pretty gun but it really shoots nicely!!! I shot sporting clays with Bill today and he was shooting this gun. He let me shoot it and it handles and points very nice. I’ve shot is few times before but he must see me staring at it and asked if I wanted To shoot it. Lol It breaks clays good with Bill’s 1/2 and 3/4 oz shells. What load were you shooting today Bill?

Hi Woody,

Yes, it's a neat gun to look at and a neat gun to shoot. I was shooting my 1/2 ounce loads today. That's about all I shoot these days. You shot it quite well.

Woody was shooting his L. C. Smith Field Grade 16 choked tight and tighter. He rarely missed a bird.

Not the nicest conditions for shooting today: mid 30's temp, strong winds and some light snow coming off Lake Ontario.

Bill, what a great Fox! Just my opinion of course but with the frame forging and barrels not serialed and sans the Fox Proof stamp I'd opine that the parts were somehow secreted from the factory and turned over to a real craftsman/men to finish. And with Coleman's tie to the AHFGC I really doubt he would have done or subscribed to that. I can't imagine him at a trap or live bird shoot with that Fox and with factory principals there to wonder how it came about.

Maybe it's a pic illusion but it’s odd that the sear pin looks to be larger diameter than the hammer pin and the exposed ends aren’t rounded off as per Fox factory practice (pic #2). frank

Hi Frank,

Yep, it could be a lunch box gun fitted and finished up by someone outside the factory.

Or, it could be an inside job. I once owned a very neat 20 gauge Fox/Ithaca hybrid that was unmarked as to maker, serial number, grade, etc. It was very Ithaca looking and it did have "12495" and "X" marked on the water table and it had an Ithaca sunburst pad.

The story was told to me by an old Ithaca employee, Joe Sacchi, that I knew quite well and who worked for Ithaca Gun back in the 1930's. He was a good acquaintance of Joe Cramer who was a supervisor at the Ithaca gun works. Joe Cramer had a brother who worked at Savage Arms in Utica NY who at the time were making A. H. Fox guns. Joe acquired the frame, barrel and fore end and associated parts for a graded Fox 20 gauge.

Back in the mid 1930's many businesses were in a slump because of the Depression. Mr. Cramer being a supervisor had the influence to have the various departments in the plant fit and finish a gun for him, including the engraving that sure looks like Bill McGraw style. The finished product came out pretty darned nice.

The 2 black and white pictures below are what Joe Sacchi showed me and told me about the gun which I eventually acquired around 1978. Also a couple color pictures I took while I had the gun.

For the complete story with better pictures, Tom Kidd did a DGJ article on the gun: "The Ultimate Compliment", Volume 8, Issue 2, Summer 1997.

Or another unlikely possibility! Was the front office curious enough about what various features might look like on one of their guns. Hence, that neat bead that wraps around the breech balls much like a Parker BHE or CHE that had the single bead. And a different way to checker the side panels. Pretty neat looking too.

All speculation Frank and your experienced observations are most welcomed.

What a wonderful find, Jolly!! With the guide pins on the extractor and the reinforced forearm loop it is not a real early gun.

Dave: Agreed, not an early gun. It does have the extractor guide pins and the fish tail style fore end lug. Maybe made from left over parts?

Kevin/Sporrns: Whether it's Coleman's gun or not, it sure is a neat piece of machinery and I'm very happy with it.

I'm sure some of you guys seen the gun when it was for sale at Hausmann's NE Shoot back in early June. I looked at it all 3 days and really liked it. I didn't pull the trigger there but called the owner the next day and got it then. Luckily, none of you other guys weren't tempted.

Pretty neat gun whether it has some interesting history or not. I knew nothing about it when it was at Ernie's. I just liked the looks of it and thinking it would make a great shooter. It is!

Roger, I'll post some better pictures of both side panels after I get this one posted.

Thank you all for your comments. Keep them coming.

Sorry this is kinda lengthy.

Jolly

[jolly bill]

Bill,

The non checked part of the checkering design on the cheek kind of reminds me of field of fire on a pigeon ring or trap house.

Anybody else get that impression?

Roger,

It does kinda, doesn't it.

Close up of both sides.

[Woody]

This gun and your 1/2 oz loads breaks targets just fine!!!!!