Looking for info on a Utica NY fox....another ? Post 46

[Weatherby]

I was hoping you'd comment again.
I will look and let you know....Thanks.

[Silvers]

If I recall correctly the serial is in the low 200,000 range.

Paul, this thread reminds me of the piece written by Jack O'Connor that's titled: Picking Your Expert.

One of your pics clearly shows a pistol grip (not a straight grip) along with white color cap spacer which is not factory. Then there's the lack of checkering, and ime the possibility the gun was ordered sans checkering is very very low. That along with looking at what I can see re: the shaping of the stock and forend lead me to think this likely is a restock and if so that will take it out of the collector gun category. Also the pics you just posted show absolutely zero engravings not even on the screw heads, sear/hammer pin surrounds nor on the frame borders, which is curious.

Well, after joining up and properly requesting a record card copy for that serial number the production part will move from opinion to fact. We shall see.

frank

[Weatherby]

HI Frank
I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone else.
I know zilch about these and that is why I came here.

I do collect S&W revolvers so know about collector values and originality and condition.

I bought because I've wanted a double like this for decades.

[Silvers]

Paul, no offense taken by me. It's kind of fun unravelling the history of these Foxes. Let’s see what the serial number shows.

[SPE33]

I have a 16 gauge SPE shipped on December 7th,1933.There is absolutely no engraving on the gun at all.Factory letter states “Very simple fine line engraving “. Not on this one.Also has a beavertail fore-end that sure looks factory to me (with my limited knowledge) but the serial number isn’t stamped in the wood like other guns I have seen.

[Researcher]

After market wood. Original SP-/SPE-Grade wood didn't have "cheeks" aft of the receiver. Original wood was smooth in that area.

[Weatherby]

This is definitely a cheeky bugger

[Silvers]

Just looking again at Paul's last two pics I don't see an engraved line around the barrel breeches and just fore of the breech balls. Maybe the lines are there but not apparent when I expand the pics on this laptop. I'm beginning to think the metalwork might be a "lunch box special" secreted out of the factory and then stocked on the outside. Last question to Paul, would you remove the barrels and look underneath on the flats where the serial number should be impressed. Is there a Savage Proof Stamp there? It will be a very small oval with SP inside. The Savage SP/oval proof stamp will indicate this Fox was likely shipped with catalogue configured wood. Alternately you can post and let us look at a good pic of the barrel flats with a penny or dime over the last two digits of the serial number; that should keep anyone here from getting heartburn if you disclose the full s/n.

frank

[Weatherby]

I'll see what I can do this afternoon and post a picture Frank. To me I'm happy with a shooter.
Less heartburn enjoying a gun I've wanted for decades.

Would you happen to know the serial ranges of 20''s so I can get an idea of how early/late this may be ?

[Silvers]

If you post a good pic of the flats even with the last two s/n digits covered with a coin, some of the more knowledgeable brethren will be able to opine about when it was made. But Foxes weren’t shipped in exact serial number sequence hence that could be many years off. The only way to know for sure is to reference the card copy if it’s available. There is one serial resource that’s on line but it sucks and you'll get an even less accurate reading on the year of mfr.

[Researcher]

Just looking again at Paul's last two pics I don't see an engraved line around the barrel breeches and just fore of the breech balls.

The early SP-/SPE-Grades from their introduction in June 1932 into 1934 were absolutely plain, not a stroke of engraving anywhere --

Early Style SP- or SPE-Grade

By 1935, Savage added a bit of border engraving as on my 1937 vintage 16-gauge shown above. Also at some point in time they changed the right barrel roll-stamping to SPECIAL ALLOY -- FORGED STEEL and as on my gun the name Fox doesn't appear anywhere on the gun?!?

303548 05.jpg (54.5 KiB) Viewed 5211 times

Someone at Utica must have eventually noticed this and they began engraving A.H. Fox on the sides of the frame.

[Weatherby]

Slowly.
Slowly.
I opened her up.
And with great trepidation peaked inside.
Did a little happy dance....not pretty.
Oiled her up and closed again.

[vaturkey]

IMO a restock.

[Weatherby]

That definitely seems to be the consensus.
I'm happy with the gun as is....to me its all I've been waiting for and more.

[Silvers]

Thanks for the additional pics. I see the SP/oval proof mark and so it’s likely this Fox left Utica as an assembled gun but with the catalogued stock and dimensions as ordered. I see yours is a SPE (ejectors) and that’s a nice combo with the single/selective Kautzky trigger. The barrels and possibly the frame look reblued to my eye but it’s hard to be definitive without the gun in hand. I suggest you join up and go for a record card check to verify the barrel length and chokes. These Foxes are addictive. Nice find and many possibilities. Thanks for bearing with us. frank