My First Fox

[Canuck]

Time for a little update so I'll revive this thread instead of starting a new one. With the end of our waterfowl season due to freeze up and after acquiring the Ithaca 5E Knick SBT I posted in another thread it was time to send the guns to Chris Dawe for a thorough going over and restorations. Now I know there is little collector value left in the HE Super Fox after some of the terrible mods a former owner had done to the gun but I don't buy guns to collect and admire, I buy guns to shoot and admire and I knew the Super would make a good shooter with Chris' skills and workmanship. My first update from Chris came shortly after the guns arrived and he messaged asking what work I wanted completed on the guns. I knew the Fox was a bit loose on the hinge when opened but once closed felt tight and solidly locked. Chris informed me the gun was off face and that he would address that issue along with anything else he might discover upon opening up the gun and then we discussed the aesthetics and I relayed I felt the gun was worth doing a full restoration on the metal and wood.
A few days later I received a text along with a picture of an issue he discovered with a past repair made to the safety. The next update I received said and I quote "Put a new roll joint in the fox last night ,still need to work on the hook,she's tight now, just not tight enough" and he then added "I think the floor plate was also replaced". We had a short convo, Chris returned to work and a few days later came the next update..."Morning Frank ,everything is moving along ,ive made another discovery on the HE,the floor/trigger plate was not original to the gun, the poor fit and lack of engraving tipped me and the non matching serial number gave it away, its all fit, new screw, boxed up for annealing and get the lines back, wood for both is in soak to remove oil.
A day or two later Chris telephoned with a little tidbit he thought I'd find interesting. Another fellow he knows who restores old SxS's was also working on a Fox on his bench. They got discussing the work they were doing on the two guns and came to discover his friend had just finished fitting a trigger assembly and floor plate into the gun on his bench that after Chris asked the serial # of came to discover it was the original trigger from my Super Fox and get this...the one original to my gun(matching serial #) was a factory single trigger!! A Klotz trigger I believe Chris called it? He said had he known a week earlier his friend had that trigger in his possession he may have been able to acquire it and put it back in my gun but the both guns had the triggers and floor plates installed and fitted properly now and it would cost alot of $ to swap the single trigger back and refit it if it was even possible as he said it may not fit my gun after being fitted in the other. I was quite surprised at the news to say the least. I am certain not many Super Foxes were likely factory ordered or sent back and updated with single triggers?!
The next day Chris messaged to inquire about some work to be done to the 5E, to be more specific which recoil pad I wanted to have installed and after our short discussion once again Chris went back to work while I went out and shoveled snow...
As an FYI Chris mic'd the barrels and measured the chambers of the Super at my request. Chris confirmed the Super is not a 3" gun as it was advertised but has 2 3/4" chambers and the shortened barrels(30" cut back to 28") have constrictions in the left barrel of .017 (LM) and in the right barrel of .019(M) leftover. I know there was no issues crushing ducks with the Super the day I took it this past fall and shot a limit of Greenheads and a few big honkers at ranges out to 40 yards using 1oz #4 1200 fps Bismuth loads.
I'll keep this thread updated on the progress of the two guns but especially the big beautiful Super.

Pic is of the "bubba" gunsmithed safety Chris discovered...

[Jeff S]

Thanks for the detailed update, and I sure remember that pile of mallards. It’s absolutely amazing that he stumbled upon the original parts. I guess it’s a small world when it comes to the SxS community.

[Stan Hillis]

Good for you, getting another Super Fox back in good order. We cannot make them original again but, as you are doing, we can certainly revive them to be used for their intended purposes.

When you think about it, it's no small wonder that any of these Supers have survived the swamps and marshes, duck boats and other vehicles, in as good a condition as many are in.

As I've said before, they are very special guns and, when put to use, they will really "grow on you".

I'm enjoying following the progress on yours. Thanks for the updates.

[Canuck]

Thanks for the detailed update, and I sure remember that pile of mallards. It’s absolutely amazing that he stumbled upon the original parts. I guess it’s a small world when it comes to the SxS community.

And extremely small here in Canada especially when compared to the lower 48.

[DarylC]

I fully agree with your statement "to shoot and admire". You're doing the Super it's just due. Nice work Frank and Chris.

[eightbore]

I would not remove the scarce and old black Hawkins pad.

[Foxnut]

Frank, thanks for the detailed update. Amazing that another gunsmith had your original floor plate/trigger. Keep us posted as you work through the project w/Chris. Amazing!!!

[Canuck]

I would not remove the scarce and old black Hawkins pad.

It's not being removed. It is staying on the gun. Chris says he has a few tricks up his sleeve he can perform to freshen up the look of it a bit. It's not going anywhere. It's still in good shape after all these years albeit a tad hard.

[Silvers]

Canuck, you can tell your gunsmith friend that what he called the “Klotz” trigger is a Kautzky trigger and is one of the most reliable vintage single selective triggers as long as people didn’t fool with them.

Regarding that modified safety spring setup in the pic you posted I don’t understand your Bubba comment. It looks to have been nicely done to make the safety button easier to move …… possibly for a physically restricted hunter?

frank

[Canuck]

Canuck, you can tell your gunsmith friend that what he called the “Klotz” trigger is a Kautzky trigger and is one of the most reliable vintage single selective triggers as long as people didn’t fool with them.

Regarding that modified safety spring setup in the pic you posted I don’t understand your Bubba comment. It looks to have been nicely done to make the safety button easier to move …… possibly for a physically restricted hunter?

frank

Yes he would know the correct name. I could not recall the name of the trigger so went with what I though it was. My gunsmith friend is a member on here I do believe and is very well known and respected in the SxS restoration world.

[Silvers]

I’ve never had any work done by Chris Dawe but do understand he’s an excellent ‘smith and well respected. I see positive references to him quite often on the Parker site. Canuck, when you talk with him I’d be interested in knowing more about the “roll joint” he put in your Fox. I ask that because Parkers have roll joints that are easily replaced but Foxes have hinge pins that are an interference (heavy press) fit into the frame. With proper equipment a Fox hinge pin could be pushed out, a new one pressed in and with both end dressed off and re-engraved, and over the years I’ve noted and measured some Foxes that had oversized pins, apparently done at one of the two factories. But nowadays an easier and more cost effective fix for a Fox that's off the face is to microweld the barrel hook and then refit. Nonetheless I'm always interested in learning about alternate rejointing techniques. A replacement roll joint doesn’t make sense on a Fox and possibly you can ask Mr Dawe to elaborate. What am I missing here?

frank

[Canuck]

I can ask but whether or not he'll reveal his techniques I am not sure. One thing about Chris is if there is a proper way to repair things and a shortcut way he will not take a shortcut. Not saying that welding the hook is a shortcut as I am no gunsmith but that does not seem like a full proper fix to me. That sounds like the guy who shims a prop bearing rather than replace it.

[Canuck]

Latest update this morning:

HE frame is out for annealing, floor plate and trigger guard to be engraved after annealing and new screws addressed, CCH will be completed on the HE and 5E after Xmas, bluing of barrel, trigger guard and screws was started today on the 5E, all wood was taken out of the degreaser/stripper today they have to sit for a week or so in case theres swelling in the wood is drying in preparation for refinishing, the HE barrels and parts to be blued will be done after ensuring everything is still tight after CCH is completed on the frame, your projects are moving along...

[Canuck]

Latest update:

Engraving is completed. Next up, polishing and CCH.

[Canuck]

Latest progress report received this morning. To say I am excited to see these in hand once completed is an understatement.

"Good morning Frank ,the cch is done ,its gorgeous! Wood on fox is ready to checker ,im still working on the bbl...ithaca wood almost done ,but all metal is blued and done."