Fox Collectors

DarylC wrote:I've never seen an FE in person, so not to sound stupid, what are the concerns you guys have with the gun?

Wrong trigger and vent rib added are two of the big ones. The letter also says no pad and there certainly is one now and that one isn't period correct for the gun. I'm sure there are other issues that I missed at quick glance.

Thanks Tom. I see all that but the Cody letter says "no butt plate". Did this mean no hard rubber butt plate or what.

Maybe I missed it but do we know what the gun went for?

That being said, if it were a 20 ga., would it matter as much? I know it wouldn't to me.

Besides the variants Tom noted the beavertail f/e doesn’t look to be original and the butt seems to be cut at an angle for lots of pitch. Nice fancy "shooter" if that pitch works for you. Link shows it went for $18.4k and I don't know if that's with the vig or not.

If the Record Card does indeed show "no butt plate" that could mean the gun was furnished so the customer could have a specific one installed. But in Cody parlance that may mean no recoil pad was specified on the Record card and hence the default would be the regular Fox HRBP. Anyone that interested would have to get a card lookup to check.

frank

I was going to ask the same question as Daryl. To help me understand and learn about collecting Fox shotguns, what gave away the wrong trigger, vent rib installed, and the btail not being original?

Seeing and studying enough Fox shotguns over the years and then correlating with the advertising pics and description of guns at auction or for sale. There's really no shortcut to gain that ability and often it's best to ask a Fox friend you trust for his/her opinion on a potential buy. That happens all the time and it's one of the benefits of doing Fox and vintage SxS events and getting to know/develop a relationship with one of more Fox personalities you click with. frank

"All original parts"??? The wood is not original, the vent rib is not original, the Miller single selective trigger is not original!!

Just needs to be correctly restocked, and the Simmons rib removed and be fitted with a new top rib or if possible restore the original rib, a pretty spendy proposition either way. Interesting that the card was marked RUSH but For STOCK. With a date of 1915 I wonder if they needed another FE-Grade for the Panama Pacific International Exposition. I would suspect that "No Butt Plate" would mean a bare wood, probably checkered butt. Wonder where the set of 26-inch barrels are now?

So much discussion about "no butt plate". Researcher is correct. In 95% of cases, it means a checkered wood butt. I still like this gun because it would be the only FE gun I would ever have a chance to own.

Doesn't measure up to the "racing stripe" FE-Grade.

This FE-Grade is kind of deja vu. Several decades ago I acted as on site agent for a friend in the heartland to buy a Quality 6 Syracuse L.C. Smith at a David Condon auction with a Miller trigger, a Simmons rib, and an after market beavertail forearm. Wonder where that Smith is now and what it looks like?

Here's some close-up photos of FE 19460 sent by RIA on request.

Click on the photos to expand . . .

Dave, I remember that Smith grade 6, I was at the auction at some old commercial facility in VA. That old ten gauge was the hottest Smith I have ever seen close up. I looked at it as an easy restoration to near original and that's probably what it is today, a good restoration. Gold inlays, signed by the engraver as I recall. I learned a lot about the mentioned individual and his partner that day. They messed with so many buyers that day that I don't think they could ever run another auction. The FE Fox could also be brought back to some better condition. By the way, did you successfully bid on the Smith grade 6?

I don't remember if I bid or if Russ bid on the phone. As I recall he get the gun, but has long since passed away. So it is out there somewhere. There is a Quality 6 with a Simmons vent rib on it, middle picture on page 91 in Houchin's book, but it doesn't have gold inlays.

The buyer got rid of the Miller trigger, but the Simmons vent rib shows up in the Houchins picture. I would love to get a second chance at that gun. I swear it had gold on it somewhere, probably the trigger guard. That auction should be written up in the history books, mostly because of the number of guns that were shilled or pulled back. I remember the Model 21 that almost caused a fistfight because they refused to sell it to the high bidder because the bid wasn't up to their standards. Russ was lucky he got the Smith.

Was that Russ Bickel?

One of the best.

Ruppel