Fox serial #1610

[Grant]

Hi, I have a Fox that my grandfather purchased in PA about 90 years ago. Serial #1610, 30" full-choke, double barrel stamped Philadelphia Arms Maker - Krupp Fluid Steel and weighs 8 lbs. In 1964, my dad sent it to the famous NY gunsmith Frank LaFever and had it re-blued and two ivory beads mounted on the rib. He also had him make a "Beavertail forestock (the shotgun currently has the original forestock mounted on it). The gun has no indication of what model it might be. I am trying to find the value for insurance purposes. I would appreciate some advice on where or whom I should contact to get an estimate of its value.



Thanks,
Grant Kistler
Winlock, WA

[Researcher]

Your gun is an A-Grade, the entry level Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox.

Plenty of Philadelphia Arms Co. info on our home page --

https://www.foxcollectors.com/pre-fox-g ... lphia-arms

I am unimpressed that "famous NY gunsmith Frank LaFever" would buff out the engraving and blue the frame. The frame, top-lever, forearm iron & forearm latch lever should be color case hardened.

The grade letter was stamped above the serial number on the watertable and barrel lug on the higher grades but generally they didn't stamp the A-Grades.

Less than 2000 Philadelphia Arms Co. guns were likely made. I've recorded 95 guns or parts from serial number 51 to 1846 and one out layer with automatic ejectors in the 26xx range.

[Jeff S]

While opinions may vary, if I were going to insure it, I would value it at $750. The sentimental value is probably a little higher. Have fun shooting it.

[eightbore]

Does the little dot on the cheek also appear on the other side? If it does, then the stock was cracked at one time and repaired. If the crack is tight, it should not affect the value of a gun in this condition. Nice old gun.

[Grant]

It is a little indentation.

[Grant]

Researcher, I don't know what gave you the impression that Frank LeFever buffed out any engraving as you can see from the photo with the original bluing. It was never case hardened and all the stamping is clear.

[Silvers]

Crispness of the stampings in the last pic is irrelevant and it's kind of hard to tell about the engravings in pics 1 and 3, but the last pic posted shows that the barrel flats are bottoming out on the frame bar and thus this PAC gun was well used before the work by Lefever in NY. You have some good family history in the gun and if it checks out safety-wise it will be a good hunter and casual shooter with appropriate fodder, but it's far from being a high condition gun that would require an assigned $ value "for insurance purposes". Unless in very high original condition these Phila Arms guns just don't have the following of the AH Fox guns, and I think Jeff's $ value number is about tops if your insurance carrier requires a specific $ number for any/all guns. frank

[Researcher]

Sure looks to me that the zig-zag border engraving that should be around the border of the trigger plate, the screw holes, the engraving on the screw heads, the zig-zag & line engraving on the frame around the trigger plate opening, the zig-zag border engraving along the edges of the trigger guard and the line engraving on the forearm iron has all been buffed away.

That bluing of the frame, trigger plate, forearm iron, and top-lever is flat wrong. Those parts should all be color case hardened.

[vaturkey]

This might be helpful information:

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdju ... gun-35258/

[44whiskey]

a picture is worth a thousand words sometimes,thanks Tom,very good example .

[eightbore]

I get so confused on this forum as to who is supposed to ask the questions and who is supposed to supply the answers.