16ga B Grade

schnabel · Post by **schnabel** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 pm

Hello, new guy here, name is Dave

Just picked this up and trying to research it a bit. Yeah, I know, backwards.

For starters, what % would it grade at?

So far I found it is 1920-21 manf, pics tell the rest of it.

28" bbls
Drop at comb 1-3/8"
Drop at Heel 2-1/4"
LOP 13-5/8"
Two small chips missing from it, many small dings/scratches, lots of Case Color left, lever is a good bit right of center, chokes are 0.630/0.630 (Full and Full), action closes tight, buttstock/forearm appear original to the gun, Buttstock has flamegrain on both sides and good figure on bottom third on both sides, several screw slots appear slightly buggered but usable, small ding in trigger guard. Bores are mint and shiny with no pitting and bluing appears original with slight fading/wear nearest breech. Cannot seem to get the Case Color to come alive with my camera, pics seem flat comparing to what I am seeing in my hands.

abner · Post by **abner** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:45 pm

Hello:

Very nice B, Thanks for the pictures.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:07 am

Overall a nice and rather scarce gun. With that short LOP it may have had a pad on it at one time. From the sanding marks on the buttstock that certainly appears to be a retrofit butt plate. Looking at the pics of the forearm, that appears to be the A-Grade checkering pattern, and why are the tips of the two screws thru the Deeley latch not engraved? Given all its tiny flaws it is probably in the 90% range, but that is a real wag going from pictures.

schnabel · Post by **schnabel** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:25 am

Researcher and Ralph, thanks

I agree that the buttstock is possibly cut down, buttpad is profiled to match. Crazy thing is it fits me great and my M1 Super90 is 14.5 LOP. I see a bit of rib and bead on this Fox, just right, about 2 stacked quarters worth of rib. I know, sacrilege to compare the two.

Post by **fox-admin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:28 am

Nice gun. The case colors on guns of that period seem to have more of a straw tone to them, later guns seem to have more blue. I wonder why?

bamboozler · Post by **bamboozler** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:06 am

Nice gun!

I had thought the B-Grade guns were discontinued in 1919, no?

schnabel · Post by **schnabel** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:46 am

bamboozler wrote:Nice gun!

I had thought the B-Grade guns were discontinued in 1919, no?

I my brief research, ongoing, I recall reading that they were not listed in the catalog after 1919. Not sure if that means ceased production. Kind of confusing.

My posting that it is a 1920 gun is solely based on this list.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos1.htm

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:52 am

It is a very nice gun. Lately I've become more and more interested in the hardening processes used by Fox and others. Just a curiosity from one of the pics, the 14th one down, 2nd one of the watertable. The front radius, hinge area of the frame, shows a lot of color case mainly on its left barrel side, at the top of the pic. I expected to see the cc worn off there, same as on the right barrel side. Also, the colors run horizontally from that front radius and continue on to the watertable. I know colors go wherever they want to during the pack hardening process but I think Fox was using the cyanide process on its Chromox frames when this gun was built. Maybe that's a function of how this frame was dunked into the cyanide? Like I said, a very nice B grade. Each one is a little different which keeps it interesting. Silvers

Post by **fox-admin** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:56 am

Another gun without the patent stamp

schnabel · Post by **schnabel** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:27 am

fox-admin wrote:Another gun without the patent stamp

The patent should be on the side opposite the serial number, correct? Do you have a pic of a later B patent?

Silvers, I see what you are saying about the area. Have seen that area worn on other doubles. Also saw signs of wear on the forend metal riding against it on those other guns. I will take a closer look at it tonight.

Forgot to add above, assembled weight is 5lb 15oz. Cannot tell what weight bbls, area where I have seen them stamped on other guns has machine marks.

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:03 am

Schnabel, usually the radius at the front end of the frame shows rub marks equally on both sides. Your gun probably has 4-weight barrels if it weighs 5-15. I have a 28" 16 gauge here with stamped 3-weight barrels and it weighs 6-4. It's not unusual, actually pretty common, for the weight stampings to be filed off the lighter weight barrels. Silvers

mike campbell · Post by **mike campbell** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:25 pm

Silvers wrote: The front radius, hinge area of the frame, shows a lot of color case mainly on its left barrel side, at the top of the pic. I expected to see the cc worn off there, same as on the right barrel side. Silvers

Silvers,
Given their random nature, don't you think it's possible there were never any blue colors on that side rather than they were worn off? Although I've seen it often on other guns, I can't see any marring consistent with metal-to-metal wear.